Curse

Winterclaw · May 08, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I've been thinking about this and the only way I can see any different sort of level system working and still appealing to the most players without screwing up the game is for PvE only skills. Basically let 1 level give you one more attribute point to put into your pve skill set. As long as you can pve without grinding levels using pvp skills and you can start at the max (GW1 equivalant of 200 attribute points) of for your pvp skills then it might work.

Kassad · May 08, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valcion

We don't need a 3D Maple Story.

We don't need the current Guild Wars game with a different name.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 08, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Well, If we had no levels, then we would have to gain power some other way. Lets say whenever we beat a mission/quest/optional blah blah, we got a highlander styled powersurge, this would increase our skills, items, hit points, energy and whatever else. This would eliminate levels but still give us a way to power up.

But I see that a larger amount of GW's fanbase really enjoy short games with little content and no real challenge to attain max power/level/items. No one wants to work for it anymore. Everyone has gotten so lazy that the idea of taking a year to get everything in a game, including max power is horrible to them, even though they will play the game for a lot longer than a year, They want to do it quick, they want to finish it fast, and start all over again with more characters, Just so they can be the first to show off their 7 uber characters and so they can also be the first ones to get bored of the game, begin complaining about nothing new and quitting for a new game.

So I will let those fans continue to put forth ideas that support their game style without having to sift through my pointless ideas. I want a game that is better than that, But I see GW2 will not be that game, Its not what the fans want.

I hope I am wrong, I hope gw2 beta will open my eyes to the great game it could be. But as it is right now we have people arguing everything, no levels, no level cap, high level cap, low level cap, no pets, more pets, no AI companions, more AI companions, easier solo, no solo option, more content, less content.

Might as well scrap gw2, and spend the resources on fine tuning gw1.

I will now just wait and see. I understand the need to discuss the game, but this thread is fast becoming pointless. So good luck to you all, I hope you each get something in the game you love, I'm off to grind title points since thats all thats left in gw1 to do besides play abusive pvp.

doudou_steve · May 08, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

/signed, but only if there is a scaling for attributes( stop at lvl 20 for example)

Narcissia · May 08, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

i hope gw2 has a level cap, preferrably low.
i actually stopped playing a few games bcuz of their high level cap. was annoying. i dont like having to spend months and months just to get to max level
i looove the level 20 cap of gw

Kerwyn Nasilan · May 08, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Level 20 cap ftw my favorite thing bout GW.

credit · May 08, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

I would like to see a very high level cap, however, a character cannot gain benefits from having a higher level after a certain point.

Phoenix Tears · May 08, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcissia

i hope gw2 has a level cap, preferrably low.
i actually stopped playing a few games bcuz of their high level cap. was annoying. i dont like having to spend months and months just to get to max level
i looove the level 20 cap of gw

uhh..

Because you can be so lazy in this game, that you get done max development in 10 hours ?

Because the game offers no content for your character, after lvl 20, then Elite armors and massive retarded grind for E Peen, that all requires from you only to be rich like Dagobert Duck?

Because you are feared of the Number 100,that you think its the end of the world to play games with such a level cap and games with such a Cap will automatically mean endless grind, that is even more braindead, than the grind mentioned above?

Because you are one of those people, which are ever a a rush, have never tiem for something and want due to this have done everythign ever as fast as possible?

Because you seem to believe, that a Level Cap of 100 makes GW2 automatically a WoW Clone?

Because you think, with such a Cap would lose GW automatically its playerbase completely?

Because to play a Character for 1 Month, god that are only 30 days in average, is so freaking too much work for a max level Chara?
Go play Ragnarok Online on an official Server with 1/1/1 rates, then you will really learn, what Grind is!!!

ect pp. could sure make some more questions like these...

Fact is imo, there is really nothing, that speaks against a Level Cap of 100, as long anet balances very good the Character Deelopment System, implements to the game enough quests, sidequests and missions plus maybe a new addition of "sub-missions" of missions to give GW2 one real big good thign, that would improve the game very much over GW1 - an unlinear Story, where the player's decisions will influence the path of your characters story and where your characters can also land onto the evil path and will become villains, if the player wishes to create an evil character and not a stereotypical hero.
A Level Cap of 100 will give the Developers alot more options for better Character Development.

Anet has stated their vision of what the level Cap will be.. forget the old System of GW1 and learn to live with a Cap of 100 or something complete different based on infinite leveling with a high cap for characters development, but beign able to level unendlessly further, but then with no benefits anymore... ala GW1, but as said only with higher cap level.

When you can't live with the changes, which will be made in GW2, then just don't buy it and stay at your so beloved GW1.

Sounds maybe rude, but all this perma QQ about level cap of 20 should stay makes sick, when it is absolutely clearly stated by anet, that to the major changes of GW2 belongs it, that the level Cap will be much higher. GW2 won't be again a game, that seems to be concepted based on PvP more over PvE...
Its like as if you try to convict somebody, that Black is White and White is Black... when you were teached, before, that Black is Black and White is White

In GW2 it will be far more looking like 50/50, because the intention of the Devs was it ever, to create a game, where PvE and PvP become more and more one and don't get looked at, like 2 complete different gameplay modes.
PvP alone will be never interesting enough as concept for a game based on it.
its the PvE Base, which keeps yet GW1 alive, not PvP. PvP is more or less DEAD and only the few Elite guilds of GW participate more or less, when it goes about the real PvP of GW - the Tournaments, the only PvP in the game, thats anyhow interestign for players, because there you can win prizes with through your Gameplay Skills as Team.

This is also the reason ,why in GW2 will not again exist PVP-Characters. All characters, that we will create in GW2 will be PvE-Characters with that we will play then PvP in the so then called World-PvP, defending your own World (Dimension) agaisnt players of other World Dimensions. Which lets think of the fact, that it seems, that for this kind of PvP GW2 will have alot more servers, than GW1 had and I'm also sure, they will be needed to provide the power to create a persistant world in that should live millions of players mostly ever simultanously and to become the game to a playable point, without insane lags making it unplayable. and for level Differencies comes then in the mentioned Sidekick System, that players with too low levels simple get buffed temporarely to the cap level, that everyone will have, when going to participate on world pvp with your character.

Sniper22 · May 08, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Because you can be so lazy in this game, that you get done max development in 10 hours ?

See this is what the problem is here. You use the word "lazy". If you haven't realized... this is a video game. I don't know what you do for a job or school or both, but I believe that people play video games to take a break for all the work in their daily life. What's the point of coming home from school, working on homework, and then going to work on your video game? You shouldn't have to try to hit the level cap. You should be able to get the cap by just playing casually through the missions/quests which you kinda mentioned. But lvl cap in the 100s just sounds like a big number. Lvl cap of 50 sounds nice to start out with, and then move it up the cap with expansions, but never into the triple digits. Just because they set the cap at lvl 100... doesn't mean it will take a long time to get depending on how they set the xp req for each lvl. Dunno bout you, but saying "hey i'm level ONE-HUN-DRED-FIF-TY-FOUR" in my head is way too many syllables to say.

This is what I suggest. Cap the lvl at 50 to start. Experience points over lvl 50 will be added to a pve rank (like our current pvp rank) which is mainly for show. Then maybe add some benefits to ranks (that are reasonable in reach for people). Say like r3 pve people can get access to this elite mission area or get pve only skills or new shiny looking weapons and armor (15k armor/elite weapons). When expansions come out to raise the cap, rank points will not spill over into going to the next lvl, so people will still have to increase their lvl like everyone else at the release. PvE rank will have no effect on PvP at all. What do you think about that? (trying to compromise here to suggest an idea fair for both people...)

[DE] · May 08, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

The whole thing is situational - involving a few separate scenarios that would affect my answer.

1) No level cap, +stats are gained every level. PvP would be a joke along with the whole concept of PvE (grindwars yeye)

2) No level cap, +stats are no longer gained after a certain level. PvP would at least be more balanced than situation one but I'm not sure how the elitism (and scrubness) of the guild wars community would deal with that when it comes to forming pugs.

3) Level Cap, ridiculously high though. LOLGRINDWARS

4) Level Cap, low max level. This is my ideal situation - max out your level and stats and then the real fun can begin - much like how GW1 is less about leveling and much more about the experiences you have after you max out your level. This places less of an emphasis on grind and more on skill however broken PvE skills and dumb titles could easily change this. I still believe that this situation is the best route to go, I really don't want to play GW2 if it's just gonna be like WoW or a korean grindfest MMO.

MMSDome · May 08, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Personally I want them to keep it low preferably 20. If however they do decide to change it I hope it is not to high... maybe 30?

nix1016 · May 08, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

yes, maybe to ~30...

i.e. you'd reach your level cap approximately when you finish the campaign without doing any side quests

snaek · May 08, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

We don't need the current Guild Wars game with a different name.

yes, cuz halo 3, grand theft auto 4, guitar hero 3, etc r such big failures of games for sticking to their formulas

Kassad · May 08, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

yes, cuz halo 3, grand theft auto 4, guitar hero 3, etc r such big failures of games for sticking to their formulas

Halo 3 was a failure, GTA4 is just the same game as the others before and nobody caresabout GH3.

GTA4 though has multiplayer. Halo 3 is just halo 2 with some new textures.

I'm guessing everyone wants the situation to be like halo. Guild Wars 2 can be the same as the current game, except with a few changes here and there and better graphics.

Successful from a financial stand point, the game itself will be epic fail, just like H3 was.

X Tigercat X · May 08, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

ok ive been reading most of this thread. Having a level cap at lvls 50-100 will not make this a skill based game. The reason gws is my favorite game is because you can get level 20 fairly simple but the game still gets more challenging. It makes you try to think of new ways to meet your goals. While with a higher level cap, instead of people thinking of new ways to beat the mission, they will just go, I'm not strong enough now i'll try in a few more levels. This would happen with both unlimited and high caps. I believe 20-30 is where the level cap needs to be. 50-100 is far too much and quite frankly getting to lvl 100 you would have to grind and grind and grind because their is no way gw2 is gonna b so long that you will be at lvl 100 by the time you are threw ( unless of course it is like PSO and have 4 different difficultys or more) Anet needs to make a level cap and keep it low.

garethporlest18 · May 08, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

Halo 3 was a failure, GTA4 is just the same game as the others before and nobody caresabout GH3.

GTA4 though has multiplayer. Halo 3 is just halo 2 with some new textures.

I'm guessing everyone wants the situation to be like halo. Guild Wars 2 can be the same as the current game, except with a few changes here and there and better graphics.

Successful from a financial stand point, the game itself will be epic fail, just like H3 was.

People don't want to work to be equal to each other. I think they should have to if they play a game like this. You want to play a game for fun? Check out GTA series or like it was said Halo or some sport or racing game. Hell even in those you have to work for stuff. Should be the same in this game. I think they started off decent with Guild Wars then went down hill.

Course lazy people, and yes that's what you are guys don't try to say you dont' know me or don't deny it, you're lazy if you don't want to earn things, want GW 2 to be exactly like GW 1, because they're mad and upset their perfect little world is gonna come to a half end. Time for change people, time to make something better than Guild Wars 1 even if it implements shit you don't like.

I don't want Guild Wars 2 to flop because I've got high hopes for it, if it doesn't undo itself from at least 90% of what Guild Wars was, then it will get boring very fast.

Tigercat that might have worked early on in the game's life, but that's not how it is now. You don't have to think at all to play Guild Wars now n days, Anet shouldn't follow their same old formula unless they can do it better without the mess ups this time. Also a level 100 cap = no grind unless you've been playing games without quests/missions.

snaek · May 08, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassad

Halo 3 was a failure, GTA4 is just the same game as the others before and nobody caresabout GH3.

GTA4 though has multiplayer. Halo 3 is just halo 2 with some new textures.

I'm guessing everyone wants the situation to be like halo. Guild Wars 2 can be the same as the current game, except with a few changes here and there and better graphics.

Successful from a financial stand point, the game itself will be epic fail, just like H3 was.

thats jus so wrong...

u want to kno y halo 3, gta4, and gh3 r great games?
not cuz it takes u 2 yrs to finish em...
cuz it has great gameplay
great gameplay that makes u want to come back and play it again and again

go back to console rpgs and click-n-point adventure games

i prefer replay value vs game length

Bront · May 08, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Yes

Unless after a certaint point, it doesn't matter (Like current GW, where you get a skill point but nothing more).

arcanemacabre · May 08, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

A poll is nice, but this one has misleading answers. It should really be something like:

Do you want GW2 to have a level cap? (same question)
Yes, a low one like GW1
Yes, a high one
No cap, or extremely high, and no advancement beyond a low level
No cap, or extremely high, and advancement continues
No levels at all - put some other system in place (explain)
Other (explain)

I know it's a little convoluted, but it gets the point(s) across. It seems there is a bit of confusion over what it means to have a level cap versus having no cap. Some are thinking no level cap means insane power creep that makes the 24/7 players become gods. Others assume that a level cap automatically means level 20 as it's always been. Neither are necessarily true, and in fact can mean the exact opposite. Anarchy Online, for instance, has a level cap of 220.

I would definitely prefer no cap, or no levels period. Levels and experience are simply a means to gauge your character's progress, and shows how much time you've spent actually playing. It is traditionally used as a rewards system - you get the next level, and you've earned xx attribute points, xx health, and xx energy, etc. While the level system in GW does have that aspect, it is more designed with 'training' in mind, rather than progression.

I think that, in that respect, GW's level system is a let-down. A starting player (as I, and all of you once were) will start to level get the reward for killing things. It feels like every other RPG out there. In Prophecies, you slowly gained level after level as you went through the game; again, just like all the other RPGs. You reached a high point in the game, a climax, if you will, where you finally reach that top level, ready to face the 'true evil,' just like all the other RPGs.

GW isn't like all the other RPGs, though, and by the time you've beaten Prophecies, you realize that. The other chapters only emphasized: "Hey, level 20 is only the beginning!" But really, after the adventure of gaining level after level, it feels like the end. Sure, there's a ton of content made for level 20's that says it really is the beginning, but it just feels like you wasted your time 'training' up to 20, even if it was the most fun you had.

My point is: remove the level system, and you remove that feeling of let-down; that false sense of what the game is really about. Make everything "level 20 content," and make everyone "level 20" from the start - no levels.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still like the idea of experience and showing how long you've actually played a character. Character progression is an integral part of RPGs, and there should still be an element of 'training.' But, experience doesn't have to equal level, and level doesn't have to equal power. Make your 'level' be more like a security badge - it shows how prominent your character is (influence, rank, etc), it shows how 'skilled' you are (access to more skills, ability to use different kinds of weapons, armor, etc), it shows the kinds of areas you can access (new zones open up, elite areas, endgame, etc), hell it may even allow you to do things others can't (attacking guards/NPCs in towns, learn different PvE skills like disarming traps, lockpicking, loot skills, etc).

But - regardless of how long you played that character, you could still be taken down by a freshly-made character just as quickly as you could take them down. You can say you're better because of all your shiny gear and leet influence, but in the end, you still have to prove it, and you can still lose.

carnage-runner · May 08, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I come from the days of Diablo 2 where Lvl 99 was leet. I don't want a lvl cap. It shouldn't affect anything either. It just gives people something to keep doing. Have PvP oriented to levels. Have an insanely long evolving story line. That way it never ends, there's always something to do. Updates that add new story lines that are accomidated to your level. This way you don't get stuck with one line of weapons that have no benefits over another. This is just my take though, which alot of people disagree with. Higher level cap means more opportunity for new aspects of the game. More diversity = more fun.